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C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion

Posted by Administrator 
C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
03. March 2022 19:16:19


Dear adventurers,
as most of you noticed C5 is coming this year.

Since I got asked over the past year a lot of times regarding olympiad, I wanted to start this discussion topic to talk about enabling the olympiad with C5.
I have no real clue about the olympiad since I just played between prelude and C2 on the official servers, I need some input to decide if the time is right for the olympiad to be enabled.

Thank you.

Yours sincerely,
Lineage II Firebird Administrator
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Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
04. March 2022 09:31:00


Hello everyone,

I think that many things in lineage2 were designed for a big amount of players.
For example killing Antharas or Valakas have proven to be impossible because there simply are no numbers for it.
Also there isnt really much of a market so unless you know how to get stuff yourself, sometimes you just cant get items you want or need.
Olympiad is also based on bigger server population in my opinion.

Olympiad can have a hero for every class. So that would be 31 heroes (possibly). Server population is around 20 to 60 players average i think.
It might bring back some old players who will want to have some fun in olympiad (pvp). It would be good to have some pvp in the server for those interested.
Heroes get some goodies and skills. I dont think that the rewards will be game breaking. Most people that have noblesse and 3th class profession are at the end game already (gearwise).
The skills however, i dont know much about them. They seem pretty powerfull. I was never a hero in my past l2 games so I cant say how people might try to use / abuse them.

Also it might not bring people back at all. I think at the moment there is barely a handfull of active players with both noblesse and 3th class that could even participate. That could mean that 1 player could for example make 3-4 heroes for him/herself. Some people have acces to multiple high lvl accounts.

I think c5 will already bring some new situations. like Demonic Sword Zariche, Epic raid Frintezza (Who drops special boss necklace), lvl 80, clan system overhaul, new skills, areas etc.
What could a hero with demonic sword do for example? Nobody could stop him / her on firebird. In a big server, a massive horde of players would hunt such a player down.
But on firebird this player can do things undisturbed.

So what is the right time to open olympiad? In my opinion it might never be. Olympiad like many other things were simply not designed for servers with these small amount of players. (no offense intended).
On the second part of my opinion though.. I would have to say since there might never be a right time for it. It might as well be anytime.
The most important factor for this in my opinion is that we all want tot have fun and to expierence l2 to its realness as much as possible. Ofcourse we are already missing out on a lot of content l2 has to offer.
(dragons, sieges, mass pvp, big marketplaces, Olympiad, simply not having to dualbox but find random party's) So i can really understand people really would love to have olympiad up and test their mettle that they worked so hard for. Personally i dont miss it. I lean more towards the pve content of the game. But if it were to be up, i will certainly go for it and aim fireballs around to try and become a hero smiling smiley

Whatever the choise, i respect both. I hope we can all play decent and fair.
Thank you for allowing us to play l2 on your server.

With appreciation,

Grenix
        

Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
04. March 2022 10:12:43


As a casual player who does not fall under the max level + subclass max level. I don't think I have any say in the olympiad. I am not a noble. I do not have time to grind in this game hours like more of the hard-core players.

For me, the olympiad is not something I would ever realistically participate in. At this same time, I would not want to prevent those that do want to participate in the olympiad. IF the demonic sword gets introduced though if I recall one of the biggest counters to those that do get the sword ARE heroes that fight against them. Maybe my knowledge is a bit rusty but I thought heroes get some way to stand against the demonic sword wielders that the non heros don't get. Maybe that can be one of the considerations when considering the olympiad.

It is true lineage 2 was made to have a fairly massive player base (500+) to really make things flow smoothly. I personally like the low population, but the low population has its own difficulties that the above post details pretty well.

C5 brings alot of clan changes to the game that I'm not sure how will affect the dynamics of the server. That will be interesting to see.
        

Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
04. March 2022 14:24:11


As others have said, Olympiad targets a small group of players, on a small population server. Changes haven't been made to things like Epics like Antharas, so it's basically impossible, but it's still available.

I've also never been a Hero, but from looking online, Hero skills may be very strong, giving an advantage - but high level players likely have an advantage anyway from being in clan or having access to Raids to farm gear.

Other than Titan class, of which there are at least a few with Noble, other rare classes could become a permanent Hero, uncontested. For example, I don't know how many (if any) Noble Spoilers / Crafters exist on this server. They would forever be Hero, getting access to Hero weapons, Hero skills, and be able to trade passes for Enchant Scrolls and Giants Books. But this is kind of no different to players that are in clan that do raids vs casual players that play solo. Eventually, everyone will have all the gear they need, and things can be sold at MDT for other players.

Like all games, hardcore players likely have an advantage over casual players. As long as the advantages to hardcore players don't detract from the experience of casual players, I don't see the harm in adding it.

Just my thoughts anyway,

Leryn - Bounty Hunter
        

Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
04. March 2022 19:38:55


Greetings.
The rules of the Olympiad are that a large number of heroes will appear on the server. And all of them will become such, not due to the skill, but due to the overflow of Olympiad points, and conducting "fake" matches. I still think this is a bad thing.

However, there are two reasons to think about including them.
1) People generally take a negative view of their absence. Especially veterans. It may even influence the decision to play on this server or not.
2) There will be 2 more mechanics in the C5 chronicles that will be related to the Olympics. First, one of the skills of increasing the number of buff slots associated with the accumulation of a large number of Olympic points. Second, the hero status will be one of the important ways to accumulate clan points.

If I had a magic wand, then I would change some rules in the Olympics:
- I would only grant hero status to the one character that scored the maximum number of points at the end of out-of-class battles.
- The rest of the hero statuses would only be awarded in class battles.
This would reduce heroes to an adequate number. But the Olympics would have significantly lost their appeal to many players.

If I have the right information, it would require 5 characters to be registered for battle at a time to run the Olympics. Accordingly, to run class battles, 5 noblemen of the same class must be registered at the same time.

As for hero status rewards, by default it looks something like this:
- Shining Effect.
- Great weapons that are better than the S-grade
- Excellent skills, which can make a big difference in boss farming. If the descriptions of their properties and roll times that I found are correct.
- Olympiad Points. Each hero will get 180,000 points for hero status + some amount of points accumulated during battles. If you merge all the points from 5 characters for one, he'll end up with 180,000+5*27,000 = 315,000

List of rewards from C4 patchnotes:
Blessed Scroll: Enchant Weapon (Grade S): 300,000 Noblesse Gate Passes
Blessed Scroll: Enchant Weapon (Grade A): 150,000 Noblesse Gate Passes
Blessed Scroll: Enchant Weapon (Grade B ): 70,000 Noblesse Gate Passes
Blessed Scroll: Enchant Weapon (Grade C): 30,000 Noblesse Gate Passes
Blessed Scroll: Enchant Weapon (Grade D): 9,000 Noblesse Gate Passes
Blessed Scroll: Enchant Armor (Grade S): 45,000 Noblesse Gate Passes
Blessed Scroll: Enchant Armor (Grade A): 18,000 Noblesse Gate Passes
Blessed Scroll: Enchant Armor (Grade B ): 3,500 Noblesse Gate Passes
Blessed Scroll: Enchant Armor (Grade C): 3,500 Noblesse Gate Passes
Blessed Scroll: Enchant Armor (Grade D): 1,000 Noblesse Gate Passes

Scroll: Enchant Weapon (Grade S): 50,000 Noblesse Gate Passes
Scroll: Enchant Weapon (Grade A): 18,000 Noblesse Gate Passes
Scroll: Enchant Weapon (Grade B ): 5,000 Noblesse Gate Passes
Scroll: Enchant Weapon (Grade C): 1,100 Noblesse Gate Passes
Scroll: Enchant Weapon (Grade D): 500 Noblesse Gate Passes
Scroll: Enchant Armor (Grade S): 5,000 Noblesse Gate Passes
Scroll: Enchant Armor (Grade A): 2,400 Noblesse Gate Passes
Scroll: Enchant Armor (Grade B ): 800 Noblesse Gate Passes
Scroll: Enchant Armor (Grade C): 150 Noblesse Gate Passes
Scroll: Enchant Armor (Grade D): 60 Noblesse Gate Passes

Secret Book of Giant: 5,000 Noblesse Gate Passes

C5 will also add:
Ancient Book - Divine Inspiration (Original Version): 450,000 Noblesse Gate Passes

I would be interested in other players' opinions, are the rewards excessive for hero status on our server?
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Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
04. March 2022 22:43:08


Hello firebird,
My opinion about olympiad is that you should enable it and let people do whatever they want with it.
They worked hard for reach where they are right now.
If i was one of the top players and ready for olympiad and my guarantee was almost 100% becoming hero i would like to see my char shine and having all the benefits for it.
Its in the content. Its obvius some things cant be done coz population but dont punish your top players without heros.

Gratz for c5!
        

Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
09. March 2022 12:29:45


As i said many times before, i'm for oly with no rewards of any sorts but aura and chat. spinning smiley sticking its tongue out


edit: and buff slot book to be free for everyone)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18.03.2022 12:33:56 by VeryNice.
        

Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
25. March 2022 07:25:18


I'm afraid that running the Olympics will create an extremely easy way to farm enchants. And for a lot of high lvl players the game will become a task of raising as many nobles as possible. It will be especially easy for those who play with multiboxes.

I vote for increasing the cost of enchants rewards in the Olympics.
Weapon enchants x2-3 from base.
Armor enchants x3-4 from base.

Free buff slot books are too freely available.
But I would make it transferable (not tied to the character).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 25.03.2022 07:25:29 by Shao.
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Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
26. March 2022 17:36:18


Im not opposed to any modification to olympiad if it is more balacing.
I think the most important parts for most of the players about olympiad is having some fun for pvp in the arena and possibly making their character a hero.
Rewards are cool ofcourse but a lot of people really dont need the money on that level. We have most stuff already.
Maybe there should be a poll for voting included so we can get a sense what most of the people would prefer?
        

Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
01. April 2022 11:12:21


You don't have unlimited free suply of blessed enchant scrolls.
Books of giants also requires grinding now, they aren't just free.
And u don't get any money so its all good, and tbh most of the ppl here want only free grind with no interventions, if they wanted pvp and fun on arena they would vote for that long time ago...



Since olympiad will be 100% uncontested same as everything on this server, there is really no point in having any rewards, raising prices isn't gonna work you will just flood server with enchants x2/x3/x4 slower. Doesn't change fact that you get them for free. And buffslot books aren't tradable so why not free for anyone, you will still need first 3 books anyway.
        

Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
03. April 2022 09:48:30


You can't just remove enchants from the list. Because they are the only "consolation prize" for those who can't get a hero title.
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Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
03. April 2022 14:23:48


New version of the changes:
1) Increasing the cost of enchants and books of giants by x3(+-)
2) Removing bonus points for taking hero status (about 180,000). Heroes get enough advantages as it is...
3) Removing non-transferability property for Ancient Book - Divine Inspiration (Original Version). Reducing its cost by half.
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Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
05. April 2022 14:37:59


1) remove all hero skill and weapons
2) remove all enchants and everything besides buffslot books
3) make olympiad avaible at set time - like sieges
4) noone cares about olympiad on this server.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05.04.2022 14:38:11 by VeryNice.
        

Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
05. April 2022 17:15:54


If introduce the 3rd item on your list, then does it make sense to cut the rewards so much?
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Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
05. April 2022 17:37:05


if not set time is there a point for olympiad at all on this server?) grinning smiley VIP event for players who have enought nobless chars to start oly? grinning smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05.04.2022 17:37:19 by VeryNice.
        

Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
05. April 2022 17:45:48


I agree that limiting it to 2-4 small intervals during the month would be a good solution. But I doubt that such a non typical change is within the power of an admin.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05.04.2022 17:47:40 by Shao.
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Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
05. April 2022 17:48:51


well then make everyone have hero aura and 24 buffslots and we done with oly.
        

Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
06. April 2022 18:05:41


As far as I remember we played on a 100% retail server or so @Kranot has always said. Why are you scared with the Olympics system? I do not have a player for the Olympics but that does not prevent other players can enjoying it and its rewards. I do not see well that the system is modified. If we go to a new Chronicle (c5) we will go the same as the original.

Rule ยง5 - Client modifications
You are not allowed to do any modification to the Lineage II client. We want a fair game for every adventurer.

It has never been possible to modify the client, not even for the zoom system. Why now yes?


Im agree with 100% retail c5 and his official features.
        

Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
06. April 2022 19:02:50


We cannot speak of a 100% match with the original version, as the last 2 chronicles had several important differences from the original. Although I do not consider all of them positive, but they are, and they greatly influenced the appearance of the server.

And in C5 will appear another major difference - offline trading. This will have a very positive impact on the trading side of the game. And I believe that this popular feature as well will attract new and old players.

Do not assume that all the deviations from the original worsen the game. NCsoft is not one of those firms that don't make mistakes at all. In addition, it is necessary to take into account the specifics of the server with a small online.
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Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
06. April 2022 19:14:18


You are right about some things, offline trading, it is something we wanted for a long time. And some other changes would be great to bring people back to the server. But let's not mix things up, the Olympics system is as it is, I don't see any apparent failure, you fight, you win and you get some prize. That's it.

Perhaps it is something only reserved for a few because of the amount of people online on the server? maybe, but that's something we assumed a long time ago. We play on a server with little population.
        

Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
06. April 2022 19:58:01


Okay, let's go back to the Olympics. And I think I need to give some examples so that our discussion is not so abstract.

So. For the Olympiad process to start, you need to have at least 5 characters registered to participate at the same time. This would require 3 players with access to nobleman characters if the rules are not broken.

In 2-3 hours they will conduct all the necessary matches. That said, given the online, of those 5 characters, 1 or 2 may take the hero title at the end of the month.

To avoid stretching out the post with calculations, I won't give the formulas. But the bottom line is that these 5 characters will be worth about 300k-500k Olympiad points. Is that a lot or a little? Let's translate that into enchantment scrolls. If you translate it into EWC you get 270-450 EWC, and if you translate it into EWS you get 6-10 EWS. Recall, this amount with the Olympics can be obtained in 2-3 hours, with the help of 3 players.

Now let's calculate how much time should be spent to get a comparable number of scrolls in the fastest way in the game:
EWC is easiest to get with a castle manor. Let's not even take into account now the process of contracting with the castle owner, buying seeds, selling fruit. The manor process itself takes about 8-10 min at high level to get then 1 EWC. That is 270-450 EWC will take 2160-4500 minutes of active play. As a reminder, this is the fastest way. In the end, we have to compare 2-3 hours in 3 people, that is a total of 360-540 minutes (Olympics) vs. 2160-4500 minutes (Manor).

Now let's calculate the EWS. Right now the only way to get them is by farming level RB69+. I've been more or less actively farming level75+ RBs for the last 2 weeks, and I can tell you that after destroying 100+ RBs, we got 3 EWS scrolls per party. Since our party consists of 2 people, that's 1.5 scrolls per person. At the same time, it takes at least 15 minutes per RB. So 100(RBs)x15(minutes)=1500 minutes per 1.5 scroll. Recall that at the Olympics, spending a total of 360-540 minutes we get 6-10 EWS scrolls. That is, 6000-10000 minutes farming RB vs. 360-540 minutes of farming the Olympics.

That's why I'm talking about raising the price of scrolls at the Olympiad manager. And that's why VeryNice says it would be good to cut them out altogether.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
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Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
06. April 2022 20:38:51


I understand your part, but it can also be good because it would activate the EW trade, they would sell more and lower the price.

Well...or so I hope because I also know that there are people who have a warehouse full of objects and do not sell anything or trade anything. With which for people who start it is very difficult to obtain certain objects. They prefer to have the warehouse full of things and full of dust than to sell or trade with players.

Firebird story.
        

Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
07. April 2022 09:15:01


Sorry mr blueboy, but non-official info i have proves that most of the server plays with zoom hacks,wallhacks,npc lvls,drop/spoil lists. And if im fine with that coz that actually doesn't give you any benifits, except ruining the "retail looks", there are still some playing 4 boxes instead of 2 coz its just as easy as having anyone you live with arround and having 2nd pc (you just call them to prove you aren't boxing when anyone asks, 99% of the time you just solo 2x pcs, totally legit). So.. Nothing retail here besides rates and game client, oly was disabled at all at c4 as u can see, so modifications aren't banned, the only question is if people want them to happen. And imho having free rewards for doing nothing but having nobless char (that you would have anyway if there was no oly to begin with) is not very fair.
        

Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
07. April 2022 09:26:14


Its not about the price of items, its about getting them. Now you can waste days for 1 ews and with olympiad "retail like" you would get flooded within 6 month. And you are 100% right about wh's full of sh*t, with retail oly wh's will be full of enchanted sh*t don't fool yourself thinking any trades will happen.. You will get same trades as now: epics(costs nothing for top players to get) for items that are time consuming to get (MSS,striders,aa,blood medusas etc..)

And besides that the only reason to have olympiad at all is to have some fun and action around here(if any will happen).
        

Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
07. April 2022 10:06:56


I play fair, I'm good )
In fact, a lot of people play fair. Hopefully more than 50%.
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Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
07. April 2022 21:25:57


Watch out for this : ""Sorry mr blueboy, but non-official info i have proves that most of the server plays with zoom hacks,wallhacks,npc lvls,drop/spoil lists.""

In the past entire clans have been banned for hacking the client, using multi-accounts and using wallhacks. You just have to look at the Hall of Fame.

About the warehouse... and the lack of trade means that many players end up abandoning the project.

As I have said before mind ... History of the Firebird.
        

Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
20. April 2022 16:53:01


I don't think there's any good reason to disable olympiad.

In retail c4/c5 there were very few players with a nobless character, and very little "competition" in the olympiad, but it was still enabled. Many classes had only one nobless of that class on the whole server (of 1k+ active players) and these players were guaranteed hero each month. I don't see a vastly different situation on firebird in terms of number of noblesses and the competition we could expect. It worked fine on retail, so why not here?

In C5 in particular, we get hero skills, which were quite a lot of fun. The hero weapons are also quite fun.

From what I recall, you really don't get many scrolls unless you manage to farm a lot of points, which is not even possible for most classes. Most classes just want the minimum number of points/matches to get their hero for the month. People might get a couple EWS each month, or a handful of armor scrolls but I don't see this as a blow to the economy. If anything, it helps to offset the complete lack of an economy on this server. On retail, it was actually possible to acquire enchant scrolls through other means (i.e. purchasing them from other players) but here the only option is to farm bosses that drop them. Getting weapon scrolls has been a real pain point on this server (compared to retail) and the olympiad could actually help with that.

I just don't really see any negatives here... Let the players who grinded nobless enjoy their hero.

More to add: Hero skills could actually make antharas/valakas a possibility on this server as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20.04.2022 16:56:39 by bugsauce2.
        

Re: C5 - Olympiad - Official discussion
21. April 2022 00:14:56


It mostly helps you and your buddies who grind 20562052 nobless chars to get wh's full of enchanted crap, not economy... You can see above shoa counted exactly how many nobl passes u get for getting hero. Antharas and valakas aren't important to get since u have 0 pvp, and in c6 (c5? have no idea never seen a c5 server in my life) you will get it with 1 party. One way of making hero weapons for fun - make them have a S grage+0+SA(only 1) stats, skills-not so much fun more like a way to get some more freefarm. Why getting enchants scrolls should be easier(free)? You will have new locations in c5 for that anyway...
        

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